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===Regarding the dates provided by soonerlater===
(please, someone organize this discussion page later :P)
I think that the first dat doesn't matter. It's just soonerlater's mother's birthday. The real thing is that she died in the Oklahoma attack and that is the reason why soonerlater disagree with TheWarden.
[[User:Oxxxid|Oxxxid]] 16:24, 10 April 2007 (PDT)
And on the 19th of April 1995 a truck bomb at Federal Building in Oklahoma City explodes, killing 168 in an anti-government movement. It seems to fit the motive of the thread, make art not war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing
--[[User:Quentin|Quentin]] 17:11, 22 February 2007 (PST)
:"It seems to fit the motive of the thread, make art not war." It does? How does the bombing tie in to art? I don't see that bombing as an act of making art instead of war, which is what it would need to be to fit any kind of motive to the thread; I don't see how you're connecting that bombing to any kind of motive. Further, should that kind conjecture be on the main page for this entry? That's the kind of assumption that belongs on the Talk page, but to see it in the actual entry only takes away from the credibility of the page/site. --[[User:Tsguitar|Tsguitar]] 22:08, 22 February 2007 (PST)
That was just a short summary, motive may not be the correct word. If you have been following this since the beginning, there have been many violent acts of resistance throughout the sites leading up to year zero. Everything to do with Year Zero to date has been fictional and set in a future time. This is the first instance I have seen a date mentioned on the Year Zero sites that is set in real time. Originally I put all of this info into the talk section of the article, but after reading the theory section already on display I decided to move it to the main page. I didn't create the theory page, but I thought it was less logical then the discoveries I had made so I shifted it there. You might not see the connection with the bombings, however it is a violent act of resistance against a government force, much in tune with the theme of yearzero. I see the boy using his mothers death as an example of where violent acts of resistance cost unnecessary lives, in response to TheWardens comment. The whole thread is an argument about art as a form of resistance compared to actual violent acts. Another reason I had moved it to the main page is that barely any people visit the talk section unless its to have a whinge, so out in the open in a "theories" section people can draw there own conclusions and maybe put a few more peices together. When someone creates a more indepth theories page surrounding the yearzero events, im sure it can be moved there. The point of this wikipedia isn't just to collect and display facts but to also help solve the puzzle.--[[User:Quentin|Quentin]] 22:41, 22 February 2007 (PST)
:I'm not so sure that violent acts in resistance to the government is what the AIR site suggests. The "Tools" page definitely offers other alternatives. Simply the title of the site implies a more civil disobedience (or at least a less violent one). When you add "make art not war" to your musing, you imply that the Oklahoma bombing is art, not war. I have a hard time with that and I'm not sure that's what you meant. Good point about the purpose of this Wiki. I hadn't thought of it quite like that as a writer, though I've been using this quite like that as a reader. --[[User:Tsguitar|Tsguitar]] 22:57, 22 February 2007 (PST)
No the AIR site opposes it, as do most of the people on the artist forum. When I said "make art not war" I was coming from the point of view that up til now most of yearzero has been about violent resistance, where as now people are coming forward who are against it. Going along with the theory, the bombing was just an instance soonerlater used to say "violence doesn't help the cause, it only causes more pain" in response to TheWarden's view. I tried to simplfy my theories so i didnt clutter the theory page but it seems it has caused it to come across meaning something different then what was intended. I've rewritten the last part of that paragraph to try make it a little easier to explain --[[User:Quentin|Quentin]] 23:12, 22 February 2007 (PST)
:I see. I changed what you wrote on the main page in order to make things a bit more clear. --[[User:Tsguitar|Tsguitar]] 00:24, 23 February 2007 (PST)
:The Oklahoma Bombings were also looked at as a government conspiracy to cover up other things. Therefore, the whole backdrop of the album (the U.S. Gov't wagind war on the U.S. citizens) can be seen through this event. It could be when the government started to 'wage' war on the citizens or to cover up it's own mistakes or actions... I dunno, haven't done enough research on it, but it's interesting... I have continually tried to find if anyone that was killed in the bombings was also born on the dates given for the child's mom... Any info? [[User:Jgrizzy89|Jgrizzy89]] 17:42, 22 February 2007 (PST)
I believe the actual identy of the childs mother is unimportant, the dates just there to link us to the bombing. Year Zero is a fictional environment, so i think the point of mentioning a real world incident would be to tie current real-world events to the possible grim future of Year Zero and give it some weight. Possibly the whole idea behind Year Zero is to give us a glimpse of hell, then point out what's really going on in the world that's driving us to a similar fate, and what we should do about it.
--[[User:Quentin|Quentin]] 17:56, 22 February 2007 (PST)
This is probably a -really- big stretch, but in the dates listed, if you add up the digits of the first few numbers (10, 1967), it adds up to... 24 (1 + 1 + 9 + 6 + 7). If you then look at "Apr 19, 1995" seperate that into "Apr 19" and "1995", convert April to it's month number (4) and add up the digits to the first one (4 + 1 + 9), you end up with 14. The sum of the last few digits (1 + 9 + 9 + 5) are also 24, leaving you with 24.14.24. Total stretch, but track 14 on Year Zero is Another Version of the Truth, the fourteenth character being the last one: 'h'. --[[User:Drake|Drake]] 23:45, 22 February 2007 (PST)
Thats a pretty good observation. One more thing about that site is the dates all read 02/03/000 in both the posts and the reproductions in the background, unlike on the rest of the forum where 02/10/0000 is reflected as 02/04/0000. An exception to this though is Iridium's post where 02/03/0000 which appears to reflect as 02/00/0000... no day?
--[[User:Quentin|Quentin]] 18:58, 22 February 2007 (PST)
===About The Warden===
Has anyone considered the fact that this TheWarden person might be The Angry Sniper? His writing style seems rather similar, both in the gratuitous use of profanity and the extremely high levels of condescension present. If he's not the Sniper himself, perhaps he's another veteran from the 105th?
Just a thought.
-- [[User:Wesker|Wesker]] 19:22, 5 March 2007 (PST)
I think the .38 to .45 is a reference to gun calibers personally, not religion. Oh and see how they mention World War 4 in there, asif world war 3 has already happened? cool.
===Air Logo===
"The AIR logo might be seen to resemble, highly stylized, the hand-shape known as 'the Presence' (a thumb and three fingers)."
The AIR logo also can be seen to resemble a highly stylised American flag, with a single star and three stripes. --[[User:Kabl00ey|Kabl00ey]] 23:38, 24 March 2007 (PDT)
:Go nuts. -[[User:Heroicraptor|Heroicraptor]] 09:13, 8 May 2007 (PDT)
I'd like to suggest creating a seperate page for the logo/emblem as it has turned up in recent releases (ie the "Letting You" song image). Maybe we can point out the diffent places it has appeared (OSR website, etc). Thoughts? [[User:Aeontriad|Aeontriad]] 14:39, 23 June 2008 (PDT)
===Wikify===
I took a stab at cleaning up the Theories section. Is it safe to take the wikify tag down? [[User:MadCactus|MadCactus]] 17:23, 10 April 2007 (PDT)
:done, and done. Thanks for the refurb. It does look a lot cleaner. Being more organized I would like to add a little more to this article. I think it could use a little more about the contents of the site itself. - [[User:Mfaith|mfaith]] 02:33, 11 April 2007 (PDT)
== New AiR site ==
I know it's only a possibility, But has anyone checked out spira.tv yet?
"Spira studio's" email server. there is a barcode on the main page, and i dont have a scanner
(please, someone organize this discussion page later :P)
I think that the first dat doesn't matter. It's just soonerlater's mother's birthday. The real thing is that she died in the Oklahoma attack and that is the reason why soonerlater disagree with TheWarden.
[[User:Oxxxid|Oxxxid]] 16:24, 10 April 2007 (PDT)
And on the 19th of April 1995 a truck bomb at Federal Building in Oklahoma City explodes, killing 168 in an anti-government movement. It seems to fit the motive of the thread, make art not war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing
--[[User:Quentin|Quentin]] 17:11, 22 February 2007 (PST)
:"It seems to fit the motive of the thread, make art not war." It does? How does the bombing tie in to art? I don't see that bombing as an act of making art instead of war, which is what it would need to be to fit any kind of motive to the thread; I don't see how you're connecting that bombing to any kind of motive. Further, should that kind conjecture be on the main page for this entry? That's the kind of assumption that belongs on the Talk page, but to see it in the actual entry only takes away from the credibility of the page/site. --[[User:Tsguitar|Tsguitar]] 22:08, 22 February 2007 (PST)
That was just a short summary, motive may not be the correct word. If you have been following this since the beginning, there have been many violent acts of resistance throughout the sites leading up to year zero. Everything to do with Year Zero to date has been fictional and set in a future time. This is the first instance I have seen a date mentioned on the Year Zero sites that is set in real time. Originally I put all of this info into the talk section of the article, but after reading the theory section already on display I decided to move it to the main page. I didn't create the theory page, but I thought it was less logical then the discoveries I had made so I shifted it there. You might not see the connection with the bombings, however it is a violent act of resistance against a government force, much in tune with the theme of yearzero. I see the boy using his mothers death as an example of where violent acts of resistance cost unnecessary lives, in response to TheWardens comment. The whole thread is an argument about art as a form of resistance compared to actual violent acts. Another reason I had moved it to the main page is that barely any people visit the talk section unless its to have a whinge, so out in the open in a "theories" section people can draw there own conclusions and maybe put a few more peices together. When someone creates a more indepth theories page surrounding the yearzero events, im sure it can be moved there. The point of this wikipedia isn't just to collect and display facts but to also help solve the puzzle.--[[User:Quentin|Quentin]] 22:41, 22 February 2007 (PST)
:I'm not so sure that violent acts in resistance to the government is what the AIR site suggests. The "Tools" page definitely offers other alternatives. Simply the title of the site implies a more civil disobedience (or at least a less violent one). When you add "make art not war" to your musing, you imply that the Oklahoma bombing is art, not war. I have a hard time with that and I'm not sure that's what you meant. Good point about the purpose of this Wiki. I hadn't thought of it quite like that as a writer, though I've been using this quite like that as a reader. --[[User:Tsguitar|Tsguitar]] 22:57, 22 February 2007 (PST)
No the AIR site opposes it, as do most of the people on the artist forum. When I said "make art not war" I was coming from the point of view that up til now most of yearzero has been about violent resistance, where as now people are coming forward who are against it. Going along with the theory, the bombing was just an instance soonerlater used to say "violence doesn't help the cause, it only causes more pain" in response to TheWarden's view. I tried to simplfy my theories so i didnt clutter the theory page but it seems it has caused it to come across meaning something different then what was intended. I've rewritten the last part of that paragraph to try make it a little easier to explain --[[User:Quentin|Quentin]] 23:12, 22 February 2007 (PST)
:I see. I changed what you wrote on the main page in order to make things a bit more clear. --[[User:Tsguitar|Tsguitar]] 00:24, 23 February 2007 (PST)
:The Oklahoma Bombings were also looked at as a government conspiracy to cover up other things. Therefore, the whole backdrop of the album (the U.S. Gov't wagind war on the U.S. citizens) can be seen through this event. It could be when the government started to 'wage' war on the citizens or to cover up it's own mistakes or actions... I dunno, haven't done enough research on it, but it's interesting... I have continually tried to find if anyone that was killed in the bombings was also born on the dates given for the child's mom... Any info? [[User:Jgrizzy89|Jgrizzy89]] 17:42, 22 February 2007 (PST)
I believe the actual identy of the childs mother is unimportant, the dates just there to link us to the bombing. Year Zero is a fictional environment, so i think the point of mentioning a real world incident would be to tie current real-world events to the possible grim future of Year Zero and give it some weight. Possibly the whole idea behind Year Zero is to give us a glimpse of hell, then point out what's really going on in the world that's driving us to a similar fate, and what we should do about it.
--[[User:Quentin|Quentin]] 17:56, 22 February 2007 (PST)
This is probably a -really- big stretch, but in the dates listed, if you add up the digits of the first few numbers (10, 1967), it adds up to... 24 (1 + 1 + 9 + 6 + 7). If you then look at "Apr 19, 1995" seperate that into "Apr 19" and "1995", convert April to it's month number (4) and add up the digits to the first one (4 + 1 + 9), you end up with 14. The sum of the last few digits (1 + 9 + 9 + 5) are also 24, leaving you with 24.14.24. Total stretch, but track 14 on Year Zero is Another Version of the Truth, the fourteenth character being the last one: 'h'. --[[User:Drake|Drake]] 23:45, 22 February 2007 (PST)
Thats a pretty good observation. One more thing about that site is the dates all read 02/03/000 in both the posts and the reproductions in the background, unlike on the rest of the forum where 02/10/0000 is reflected as 02/04/0000. An exception to this though is Iridium's post where 02/03/0000 which appears to reflect as 02/00/0000... no day?
--[[User:Quentin|Quentin]] 18:58, 22 February 2007 (PST)
===About The Warden===
Has anyone considered the fact that this TheWarden person might be The Angry Sniper? His writing style seems rather similar, both in the gratuitous use of profanity and the extremely high levels of condescension present. If he's not the Sniper himself, perhaps he's another veteran from the 105th?
Just a thought.
-- [[User:Wesker|Wesker]] 19:22, 5 March 2007 (PST)
I think the .38 to .45 is a reference to gun calibers personally, not religion. Oh and see how they mention World War 4 in there, asif world war 3 has already happened? cool.
===Air Logo===
"The AIR logo might be seen to resemble, highly stylized, the hand-shape known as 'the Presence' (a thumb and three fingers)."
The AIR logo also can be seen to resemble a highly stylised American flag, with a single star and three stripes. --[[User:Kabl00ey|Kabl00ey]] 23:38, 24 March 2007 (PDT)
:Go nuts. -[[User:Heroicraptor|Heroicraptor]] 09:13, 8 May 2007 (PDT)
I'd like to suggest creating a seperate page for the logo/emblem as it has turned up in recent releases (ie the "Letting You" song image). Maybe we can point out the diffent places it has appeared (OSR website, etc). Thoughts? [[User:Aeontriad|Aeontriad]] 14:39, 23 June 2008 (PDT)
===Wikify===
I took a stab at cleaning up the Theories section. Is it safe to take the wikify tag down? [[User:MadCactus|MadCactus]] 17:23, 10 April 2007 (PDT)
:done, and done. Thanks for the refurb. It does look a lot cleaner. Being more organized I would like to add a little more to this article. I think it could use a little more about the contents of the site itself. - [[User:Mfaith|mfaith]] 02:33, 11 April 2007 (PDT)
== New AiR site ==
I know it's only a possibility, But has anyone checked out spira.tv yet?
"Spira studio's" email server. there is a barcode on the main page, and i dont have a scanner